tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post5675027641116032365..comments2023-10-20T06:41:31.943-07:00Comments on Visits to Candyland: The foundationElena LaVictoirehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-40674684779145599012009-11-02T18:14:39.762-08:002009-11-02T18:14:39.762-08:00It's very hard having a baby that seems to nee...It's very hard having a baby that seems to need no sleep; my two and a half year old was that way for her first year and a half, so I feel for you.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-65372632503489902172009-11-02T18:02:24.406-08:002009-11-02T18:02:24.406-08:00Kelly,
Sorry, I didn't realize you were taking...Kelly,<br />Sorry, I didn't realize you were taking a break; but I don't demand an immediate answer, and I often post things just to add information so others who read it can see both sides (though I suppose you don't want to leave it unanswered, so I see what you mean). If it bothers you I will try to avoid posting in between conversations. <br /><br />About Catholics not being monophysites, the point is that if errors are not caught and corrected, as Honorious' was not immediately caught, then people will continue to go more and more into error. I would guess that the majority of people, in the RCC as well as in many protestant churches, don't do very well at checking teachings out against the Bible and are likely to just go with the flow.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-27867285250651031012009-11-02T17:25:58.423-08:002009-11-02T17:25:58.423-08:00The RCC has trained her people to trust in her ins...<i>The RCC has trained her people to trust in her instead of in God's word</i><br /><br />Indeed, that is why I'm always quoting from papal documents here at VTC instead of the Bible. <br /><br /><i>Since, however, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that the bishop of Rome can never err in matters of faith and morals, when her leaders, like Honorious, go astray and teach false doctrines, her people (having accepted the dogma of infallibility) must believe that their leaders cannot be wrong</i><br /><br />Yes, you have firmly convinced me that Catholics are now Monophysites. <br /><br />Now that is settled, you might remember that I try to space out the debates for a reason. I will try to be less grumpy, if you respect my break. The incredible-non-sleeping baby is back, and if he's awake, he is crying. *sigh*Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16120027058653022897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-5345846145585467182009-11-01T21:17:42.243-08:002009-11-01T21:17:42.243-08:00Kelly,
Well, what assurances do the non-Catholic C...Kelly,<br /><i>Well, what assurances do the non-Catholic Christian churches have that their preferred denomination won't start ordaining practicing gay men to the ministry? Or paying for abortions for their church employees?</i><br />Protestants don't claim infallibility for their leaders. The standard for Biblical protestant churches is to teach their people to trust in Christ and His word and not in 'the church,' so since the church and its leaders are not infallible and are not expected to be, we look to the scriptures as our final authority. When men fail, we should stand on the word of God, and be able to see that we should not follow men, but God. <br /><br />Since, however, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that the bishop of Rome can never err in matters of faith and morals, when her leaders, like Honorious, go astray and teach false doctrines, her people (having accepted the dogma of infallibility) must believe that their leaders cannot be wrong in teachings on faith and morals and so will be much more likely to accept what is taught than to question it. Their standard is the Church hierarchy and not the scriptures, so they have no truly infallible rule to go by unless they reject the church teaching and turn to God's word. <br />In other words, if you claim infallibility, you'd better be able to deliver it, or you'll be the blind leading the blind. The RCC has trained her people to trust in her instead of in God's word; but God says “ Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength, Whose heart departs from the LORD." Jeremiah 17:5Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-44631708488956189802009-10-31T11:54:58.271-07:002009-10-31T11:54:58.271-07:00It's hard to take any article seriously that b...It's hard to take any article seriously that begins with "because we're all placed under anathema" because we disagree with the doctrine. <br /><br />I also found the conclusion pretty humorous. What assurance do Catholics have that Pope Benedict's writings won't be condemned as heretical years from now? Well, what assurances do the non-Catholic Christian churches have that their preferred denomination won't start ordaining practicing gay men to the ministry? Or paying for abortions for their church employees? Sure, your system is a much better guarantee of stability . . .Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16120027058653022897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-14284110902379585252009-10-31T11:13:28.030-07:002009-10-31T11:13:28.030-07:00Here's an article that Paul linked to on my bl...Here's an article that Paul linked to on my blog about Pope Honorious and Papal infallibility:<br /><a href="http://www.stanmurrell.org/papal_infallibility" rel="nofollow">http://www.stanmurrell.org/papal_infallibility</a>Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-90691718744164625862009-10-17T05:35:27.279-07:002009-10-17T05:35:27.279-07:00I pray that Kelly's husband will recover and b...I pray that Kelly's husband will recover and be well.<br /><br />Peace and blessings,<br />HillaryDaughter of Wisdomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01565795173054909961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-38959598910113300882009-10-16T06:36:22.124-07:002009-10-16T06:36:22.124-07:00Well, that's no fun :)Well, that's no fun :)Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-11265844381737461152009-10-16T04:31:28.024-07:002009-10-16T04:31:28.024-07:00Sure - email her.Sure - email her.Elena LaVictoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-59703762534923043332009-10-15T20:27:10.545-07:002009-10-15T20:27:10.545-07:00Did ya'll hear about the little boy in Colorad...Did ya'll hear about the little boy in Colorado who's father was working on a hot air balloon project with him, and the little boy, who is about 6 I think, when his dad wasn't around, let the balloon loose; a little friend said he saw the boy climb into it, so they thought he had floated away in it; they had helicopters following it and when it went down, he wasn't in it. Everyone was afraid he had fallen out before they began following it. Well...my daughter just read online that he was found hiding in a cardboard box in their garage, probably because he was afraid he'd get in trouble for letting the balloon go! Can you imagine the parent's relief? Whew!Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-81760454778491085422009-10-15T19:36:06.100-07:002009-10-15T19:36:06.100-07:00Elena,
may I just make a remark to D.O.W. about wh...Elena,<br />may I just make a remark to D.O.W. about what she said about anathemas?Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-29868145643792916332009-10-15T17:54:10.843-07:002009-10-15T17:54:10.843-07:00Gleefully!!!Gleefully!!!Elena LaVictoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-22758733552898037992009-10-15T17:36:29.860-07:002009-10-15T17:36:29.860-07:00Anathemas are off topic. Elena may gleefully delet...Anathemas are off topic. Elena may gleefully delete any further comments on them.<br /><br />Thank you for the prayers for my husband. He is having trouble keeping down his pain medication or any food. I just got back from my third trip to the pharmacy, so hopefully we have it fixed this time.Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16120027058653022897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-60260268083045555432009-10-15T17:02:11.524-07:002009-10-15T17:02:11.524-07:00Paul, let them anathematize all they want. If we ...Paul, let them anathematize all they want. If we work to maintain religious freedom in this country, then we have nothing to worry about. Those anathemas will just be powerless words.Daughter of Wisdomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01565795173054909961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-79669699122104435442009-10-15T15:47:02.655-07:002009-10-15T15:47:02.655-07:00Jennie wrote:
"Have there been any anathemas ...Jennie wrote:<br />"Have there been any anathemas pronounced between the New Testament one and the ones at the council of Trent? I'm not familiar with that information."<br />-----------<br />Jennie,<br />The answer is yes. In fact Pope Honorius was anathematized and pronounced a heretic:<br /><br /><b>"Though Vatican I appeals to history as a valdation for its claims, it is the very facts of history which prove them to be spurious. Historically, papal infallibility was never part of the teaching or practice of the early Church, nor was it ever part of the doctrinal content of saving faith as taught by it. This is well illustrated by the actions of the 6th Ecumenical Council (III Constantinople) held in 680-681 A.D. This Council is well known in Church history for its official condemnation of a number of leading Eastern Bishops as well as a Bishop of Rome for embracing and promoting heretical teachings. The particular Pope who was posthumously excommunicated from the Church and forever branded a heretic was Pope Honorius, who reigned as bishop of Rome from 625 to 638 A.D."</b><br /><br /><a href="http://www.christiantruth.com/pope.html" rel="nofollow">An Ecumenical Council Officially Condemns a Pope for Heresy </a>Algohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11166837376395639695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-39833650815956466782009-10-15T15:38:46.808-07:002009-10-15T15:38:46.808-07:00Daughter Of Wisdom said:
"I wouldn't worr...Daughter Of Wisdom said:<br />"I wouldn't worry too much about the anathemas. Those anathemas are only applicable to their church members, and not to us outsiders."<br />----------------<br />That in fact is the common claim (that anathemas are no longer applied, and that excommunication applies only to those already in the R.C Communion).<br />However, their dogmatic decrees DO condemn those outside the "Church", (meaning Roman Church).<br /><br /><b>" Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."</b><br /><br /><a href="http://www.saint-mike.org/Library/Papal_Library/BonifaceVIII/Unam_Sanctam.html" rel="nofollow">Unam Sanctam </a>Algohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11166837376395639695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-88510325292498520092009-10-15T14:25:44.354-07:002009-10-15T14:25:44.354-07:00Jennie said:
"I think an important point abo...Jennie said:<br /><br />"I think an important point about the anathema Paul cited is that the Catholic Church has no right to anathematize something that God, in His word, has not anathematized."<br />----------------------------------<br />I wouldn't worry too much about the anathemas. Those anathemas are only applicable to their church members, and not to us outsiders. Those anathemas are powerless against those of us outside of the Catholic denomination. What we have to fear is curses pronounced upon us by God, not man.<br /><br />Peace.Daughter of Wisdomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01565795173054909961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-64159051027219782642009-10-15T13:01:40.317-07:002009-10-15T13:01:40.317-07:00Fine with me, Elena.Fine with me, Elena.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-76312446903660013762009-10-15T12:51:02.334-07:002009-10-15T12:51:02.334-07:00Let's wait for Kelly, our anathema expert to c...Let's wait for Kelly, our anathema expert to come back and handle that.Elena LaVictoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-73379680022661524242009-10-15T12:46:48.576-07:002009-10-15T12:46:48.576-07:00Have there been any anathemas pronounced between t...Have there been any anathemas pronounced between the New Testament one and the ones at the council of Trent? I'm not familiar with that information.<br /><br />I believe the only reason for an anathema would be to repeat the one that Paul stated, which is God's inspired word, because someone or some group is perverting the gospel. It would be a repetition of what God has already said, not a new pronouncement. <br />Historically, the church fathers as far as I know did not threaten people with curses because if they didn't believe in a certain form of church government, especially one which is not specifically stated in scripture.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-19661994004939864102009-10-15T12:33:28.394-07:002009-10-15T12:33:28.394-07:00Jesus left His church and his vicar (Peter) and th...Jesus left His church and his vicar (Peter) and the apostles and via apostolic succession the popes and bishops to pass on his teachings. Part of the church's job is to protect the church and the believers from error. Sometimes that meant strong pronouncements like anathemas and today possibly excommunications - none of which precludes any one from repenting and coming bck into the fold. <br /><br />As far as history goes- history is on the side of Catholicism which has historic Protestantism beat by 1500 years or so. More Christians for centuries followed the Catholic church for her teachings than not. <br /><br />This is one of the things that keeps me Catholic - there just isn't an historic case for Protestantism.Elena LaVictoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-17022668728683492122009-10-15T12:09:49.112-07:002009-10-15T12:09:49.112-07:00Elena,
Jesus didn't say that binding and loosi...Elena,<br />Jesus didn't say that binding and loosing meant 'the church' could order people to believe something that most Christians historically didn't believe and threaten the flock with a curse if they don't accept that.<br />There is no basis for that thinking.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-39277130608525786392009-10-15T11:35:02.179-07:002009-10-15T11:35:02.179-07:00Who says that that's what it means?
Jesus<i>Who says that that's what it means?</i><br /><br /><br />JesusElena LaVictoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-70948944554458121102009-10-15T10:38:24.461-07:002009-10-15T10:38:24.461-07:00Elena,
It's in the loosing and binding stuff -...Elena,<br /><i>It's in the loosing and binding stuff - that's where the Church gets the right.<</i><br /> <br />Who says that that's what it means?<br /><br />Isn't it referring to forgiveness of sins through the gospel and helping believers to get free of the things that bind them because of their sins?Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-27069230750937119622009-10-15T08:59:00.641-07:002009-10-15T08:59:00.641-07:00I guess I'm missing your point Paul. Are we a...I guess I'm missing your point Paul. Are we arguing Presbyters vs. bishops?Elena LaVictoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.com