tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post5836678664629083331..comments2023-10-20T06:41:31.943-07:00Comments on Visits to Candyland: How alone is faith alone?Elena LaVictoirehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comBlogger92125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-2953203290483648422009-09-23T13:01:37.700-07:002009-09-23T13:01:37.700-07:00She meant of course, speaking as if you alone poss...She meant of course, speaking as if you alone possess the only truth.<br /><br /><br />This is a good example of why threads that veer of course should be brought back in line with a heavy finger on the delete button. And since once more this one has veered, it's history.Elena LaVictoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-61263282497311916872009-09-23T12:54:47.472-07:002009-09-23T12:54:47.472-07:00If you can't stop speaking the truth, then you...<i>If you can't stop speaking the truth, then you'll need to move along to another blog.</i><br />Kelly, did you read this before you posted it?<br /><br /><i>you need to stop with the "You're being misled by demons" and "Pope Leo was a liar" routine.</i><br />I didn't say anything about being misled by demons on your blog, did I? I know on my blog I talked about that along with lying signs and wonders.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-87914430950503835522009-09-23T12:32:08.781-07:002009-09-23T12:32:08.781-07:00Hillary and I don't claim infallibility or tha...<i>Hillary and I don't claim infallibility or that we can't be in error. People that are guided by the Spirit can misunderstand things.</i><br /><br />Then I guess you should stop telling us that you know your interpretation is correct and ours is wrong because you are guided by the Holy Spirit. If you can err, then it is possible that ours is right.<br /><br /><i>However, there are things that are clear to those who know Him, and if we see something contrary to the clear word, we are to speak the truth.</i><br /><br />If you can't stop speaking the truth, then you'll need to move along to another blog. If you're going to stick around here then you need to stop with the "You're being misled by demons" and "Pope Leo was a liar" routine.Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16120027058653022897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-82070291755768564452009-09-23T11:32:29.911-07:002009-09-23T11:32:29.911-07:00Here's a post by Turretinfan that talks about ...Here's a post by Turretinfan that talks about believers 'making mistakes' even though we are taught by God.<br /><a href="http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2009/09/dont-be-surprised-if-you-make-some.html" rel="nofollow">http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2009/09/dont-be-surprised-if-you-make-some.html</a>Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-90508721535648734922009-09-23T11:26:47.218-07:002009-09-23T11:26:47.218-07:00Kelly,
Well, you thought you were being oh-so-clev...Kelly,<br /><i>Well, you thought you were being oh-so-clever by laying the infallibility trap. When we agree that anyone who is claiming infallibility but teaching contrary to Scripture is wrong, then *big surprise* you'll say that's what the Pope does, therefore, he's a liar. <br /><br />Hillary says that she has the gift of prophesy and Scripture interpretation. You say that the Holy Spirit helps each believer to correctly interpret Scripture. If the Holy Spirit protects you from error, then that is infallibility. You can, yourself, fall into that trap you tried to set for us.</i><br /><br />I wasn't trying to be clever or set a trap, I was only saying what was obvious to me, and hoping that by pointing it out, you might see it too. By being in opposition to scripture, he is showing himself to be fallible.<br />Hillary and I don't claim infallibility or that we can't be in error. People that are guided by the Spirit can misunderstand things. We don't learn everything all at once, but the more we seek Jesus in His word, and learn the whole word, the more we will know Him. However, there are things that are clear to those who know Him, and if we see something contrary to the clear word, we are to speak the truth.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-29598986881496567252009-09-23T10:24:55.395-07:002009-09-23T10:24:55.395-07:00Kelly,
where did you get the idea that I was calli...<i>Kelly,<br />where did you get the idea that I was calling Hillary a liar?</i><br /><br />Well, you thought you were being oh-so-clever by laying the infallibility trap. When we agree that anyone who is claiming infallibility but teaching contrary to Scripture is wrong, then *big surprise* you'll say that's what the Pope does, therefore, he's a liar. <br /><br />Hillary says that she has the gift of prophesy and Scripture interpretation. You say that the Holy Spirit helps each believer to correctly interpret Scripture. If the Holy Spirit protects you from error, then that is infallibility. You can, yourself, fall into that trap you tried to set for us.<br /><br />If there is the possibility that you are wrong (and I appreciate Hillary saying that she is open to that possibility, I'm not trying to pick on you, really!) then you cannot claim that you have the only true interpretation and therefore, there is the possibility that our Church is correct in her interpretations.<br /><br />I have said before, I appreciate a good discussion. I really liked when Candy had her Gospel of John series and she wrote down what she believed, and contrasted that with what the Catholic Church believes.<br /><br />But Jennie, bludgeoning us over the head with a brick will not convert us. If you keep telling us over and over again that we are being misled by demons, that our Church is intentionally lying to us, etc., then it only makes us completely turn away from anything you write.<br /><br />If you are going to stay here, then, by all means, lay out your argument. We are all faithful Christians who are doing our best to seek God's Will. If we are open, which we believe that we are, then the Holy Spirit will move us to accept your words. You cannot drag us kicking and screaming there. Just let it rest, and give the Holy Spirit a chance, okay?Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16120027058653022897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-22575689352737305402009-09-23T08:58:50.101-07:002009-09-23T08:58:50.101-07:00"My house' does not include every weird s..."My house' does not include every weird sect out there "<br /><br />...chuckle...I was actually thinking of the Presbyterians USA and United Methodists. Like it or not my dear those folks are most definitely in the house of Protestants.Elena LaVictoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-10501822708867405152009-09-23T08:02:43.872-07:002009-09-23T08:02:43.872-07:00Dr. M, I'm not trying to bait an argument; I&#...<i>Dr. M, I'm not trying to bait an argument; I've already explained this here and on another post. I'm just responding to Elena.</i><br /><br />My point exactly -- this has already been explained on another post. Stop bringing it up. It's getting to the point to where no amount of explanation will ever be good enough for you. You have closed your mind to it, so it is pointless.Dr _MikeyMikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789639272046760719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-46924112954521716192009-09-23T07:58:57.596-07:002009-09-23T07:58:57.596-07:00Dr. M, I'm not trying to bait an argument; I&#...Dr. M, I'm not trying to bait an argument; I've already explained this here and on another post. I'm just responding to Elena.<br /><br />Elena,<br />'My house' does not include every weird sect out there that DOESN'T hold to scripture as the supreme word of God and the final rule of faith and practice. There aren't thousands of protestant denominations, but there are perhaps thousands of groups that DON'T follow scripture and instead follow traditions of men and doctrines of demons.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-91700621850096714132009-09-23T07:32:18.558-07:002009-09-23T07:32:18.558-07:00I agree with Mike -although I think we hit obnoxio...I agree with Mike -although I think we hit obnoxious months ago. <br /><br />If scripture is so easy to understand why are there thousands of Protestant denominations? Come on jennie- ya'll clean up your own house first before you tell me how "easy" it is to understand and agree on scripture.Elena LaVictoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-41095856730270550152009-09-23T07:29:19.954-07:002009-09-23T07:29:19.954-07:00Scripture isn't so hard to understand that I c...<i>Scripture isn't so hard to understand that I can't see that what Pope Leo XIII said was contrary to it. It is contrary to the very existence and essence of scripture as the Word of God Himself.</i><br /><br />See? Now you are trying to bait an argument like some High School sophomore. Rather than pointing out the specific issue that you disagree with, you stick with vagueness like "I disagree with what Pope Leo said", and that certainly comes off (to me at least) like you are trying to pick a fight. <br /><br />It is also interesting that how one bad apple (or issue in this case) spoils the whole bushel for you.<br /><br />And if you are referring to Marian doctrine <b>again</b> .. hasn't this been explained time and time again? Now you it seems as though you are -really- being obnoxious.Dr _MikeyMikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789639272046760719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-61571558094962391932009-09-23T06:57:48.469-07:002009-09-23T06:57:48.469-07:00Elena,
Scripture isn't so hard to understand t...Elena,<br />Scripture isn't so hard to understand that I can't see that what Pope Leo XIII said was contrary to it. It is contrary to the very existence and essence of scripture as the Word of God Himself. It is contrary to the fact that God Himself interprets His own word for His people by the Holy Spirit in each believer.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-14654381802325899972009-09-23T06:12:59.951-07:002009-09-23T06:12:59.951-07:00Just because I quote scripture and the interpretat...<i>Just because I quote scripture and the interpretation is not understood by all does not mean I am wrong.</i> <br /><br />Agreed.<br /><br />However it also doesn't mean that you are right or that other interpretations aren't just as valid.<br /><br /><br /><i>Thanks Jennie for your support. I know you would never call me a liar. It is just so much not like you :-). </i><br /><br />...unless you're a Pope with an Encyclical she doesn't agree with. Then she's pretty free and easy with the "liar liar pants on fire" routine.Elena LaVictoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-77678977907343057292009-09-23T02:13:37.492-07:002009-09-23T02:13:37.492-07:00LOL! I am certainly not infallible. Just because...LOL! I am certainly not infallible. Just because I quote scripture and the interpretation is not understood by all does not mean I am wrong. It just means that it is not understood. I try to make myself as clear as possible, but like a teacher, I know that not all students will understand, and I also do not expect everyone to accept what I say. I know some will reject, but that is all a part of the learning process. I am pretty realistic about such things. If however I am found to be wrong, please correct me with evidence. I am pretty accepting of truth, once it is presented to me. Don't just say I am wrong because you FEEL I am wrong, because I may be right!<br /><br />Dr. Mike is right. Let us not accuse each other of being more scriptural or spiritual on a facetious level. It is not about personalities here. It is about analyzing and examing certain CLAIMS, using factual evidence.<br /><br />One of the more successful tricks of the devil is to make personal attacks when he is unable to make a counter argument against facts.<br /><br />Thanks Jennie for your support. I know you would never call me a liar. It is just so much not like you :-).<br /><br /><br />Peace.Daughter of Wisdomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01565795173054909961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-59222329010476436942009-09-22T19:54:14.025-07:002009-09-22T19:54:14.025-07:00You guys might like my newest post:
http://pilgrim...You guys might like my newest post:<br /><a href="http://pilgrimsdaughter.blogspot.com/2009/09/nuns-with-guns.html" rel="nofollow">http://pilgrimsdaughter.blogspot.com/2009/09/nuns-with-guns.html</a>Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-65207470804949437012009-09-22T19:47:54.559-07:002009-09-22T19:47:54.559-07:00No, what I think is 'Let God be true, and ever...<i>No, what I think is 'Let God be true, and every man a liar.' We all have various wrong beliefs, but as scripture sheds light on them and the Holy Spirit convicts us, we need to let go of those wrong beliefs.</i><br /><br />Agreed. The problem comes when you insist that the Holy Spirit has only convicted you and that only you have seen the light of scripture and that every one else is wrong and has to let go of those wrong beliefs. <br /><br />Because where I'm sitting it's been an entirely different experience and I am grateful for my faith as a Catholic Christian.Elena LaVictoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-21552120187522907072009-09-22T19:42:38.552-07:002009-09-22T19:42:38.552-07:00Elena,
No, what I think is 'Let God be true, a...Elena,<br />No, what I think is 'Let God be true, and every man a liar.' We all have various wrong beliefs, but as scripture sheds light on them and the Holy Spirit convicts us, we need to let go of those wrong beliefs.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-6010502566390946612009-09-22T19:27:01.804-07:002009-09-22T19:27:01.804-07:00If someone claims to be infallible, yet contradict...<i>If someone claims to be infallible, yet contradicts the written scripture, he is a liar.<br />Don't you agree that this is true?</i><br /><br /><br />If that someone is the Pope and he is speaking on matters of faith and morals he is not contradicting scripture but upholding it. That you don't have the framework to understand what he says doesn't make him a liar.Elena LaVictoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-13032407792637689022009-09-22T19:21:48.891-07:002009-09-22T19:21:48.891-07:00Ugh -- here we go again.
The debate starts out we...Ugh -- here we go again.<br /><br />The debate starts out well enough, and then it starts to melt into -- "So you are saying that you are scriptural? Well, then look at Pope So-and-so (or So-and-so-ius .. that sounds more Latin)". From there, it goes to: "Alright, well can you post evidence of this?", and the cycle continues.Dr _MikeyMikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789639272046760719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-6097927591957197992009-09-22T19:16:21.823-07:002009-09-22T19:16:21.823-07:00I know scripture is true, so what else can be conc...<i>I know scripture is true, so what else can be concluded, but that what they teach is contrary to the truth?</i><br /><br />Well the conclusion I came to is that you don't know scripture as well as you think you do and so you are misinterpreting it, but you think you are right and everyone else is wrong.Elena LaVictoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-18161040839058995022009-09-22T19:14:12.666-07:002009-09-22T19:14:12.666-07:00Kelly,
where did you get the idea that I was calli...Kelly,<br />where did you get the idea that I was calling Hillary a liar? Hillary doesn't claim to be infallible, and for the most part she isn't interpreting anything, only quoting scripture.<br />The later popes, however, are claiming infallibility like that of inspired scripture, yet they contradicted each other as well as contradicting scripture. I know scripture is true, so what else can be concluded, but that what they teach is contrary to the truth?Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-42682058893612407382009-09-22T18:35:44.280-07:002009-09-22T18:35:44.280-07:00Jennie, I can't speak for Elena, but I am not ...Jennie, I can't speak for Elena, but I am not comfortable with calling or insinuating that fellow Christians such as Hillary are liars or being misled by evil spirits because they claim to be able to infallibly interpret Scripture, but are wrong in their interpretation.<br /><br />I would prefer we speak of disagreements or different interpretations, and in charity, assume that our fellow Christians are honestly seeking the Truth.Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16120027058653022897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-60238840532590487192009-09-22T16:46:59.736-07:002009-09-22T16:46:59.736-07:00Elena,
This is what I said over on the other post ...Elena,<br />This is what I said over on the other post that you closed:<br /><i>If someone claims to be infallible, yet contradicts the written scripture, he is a liar.</i><br />Don't you agree that this is true?Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-10392187723538374152009-09-22T14:51:23.401-07:002009-09-22T14:51:23.401-07:00Yes you did Jennie, and it's one of the reason...Yes you did Jennie, and it's one of the reasons that I closed one of the other threads. Don't insinuate Catholics are lying and don't prosyletize or I will remove your comments. If that intimidates you maybe you should re-examine your rhetoric here and your purpose for visiting.Elena LaVictoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108910015959872763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-853207333094285361.post-68628179020898770962009-09-22T13:15:09.722-07:002009-09-22T13:15:09.722-07:00I said nothing hateful, so don't try to intimi...I said nothing hateful, so don't try to intimidate me please. It is true that if something can't stand up to the scrutiny of truth then it must be a lie. I didn't call anyone a liar.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.com