Thursday, June 12, 2008

Fun with fallacies

Angie, it's nice that you believe in Jesus Christ - whatever that means. I believe in Abraham Lincoln, but that's not getting me into heaven. Also, I already told you that I'm not condemning you, GOD has ALREADY done that, and I gave you scripture which proved it.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." -John 3:18

Holy Cow Batman... with Candy you are damned if you do and damned if you don't! Angie believes in Jesus, but God has already condemned her, (according to Candy) because she "believeth not" because belief = what Candy believes, the way Candy believes.

Aside from the inductive reasoning error, how many strawmen and ad hominems can we pile on poor Angie!

You are moving to calling me names such as "pompous," and calling the beautiful readers of this site "blind," because you are the pompous and blind one. You refuse to open your eyes to the truth, and you are becoming highly offended, because you know you can't refute the things I've told you, because what I tell you is of God

Inductive reasoning fallacy
Appeal to ridicule
Inductive and deductive reasoning fallacies.

How do I know this stuff? I read it in the Bible, without an church having to tell me what the Bible means. I really wish you'd try that. :-(

What makes me right isn't that my confidence in the truth shows through - what makes me right, is that GOD HIMSELF told me the truth, via His Holy Word, and I read it and BELIEVE it.

At which point I raise my weary hand, point to the rest of Christendom who have various disagreements with Candy on other points, and ask what makes her right and everyone else wrong.

I never wrote an article ripping any woman apart in regards to Roman Catholicism. You need to get your head straight, and learn to distinguish the difference between the stories you make up in your head, and actual facts.

Well we now know that's a whopper. Susan's (Saved Sinner) side of the story here.

I would say thank you for your prayers, but yours are empty and meaningless. The Rosary is not in the Bible, neither are any official Roman Catholic prayers.

I'm going to blog about that in depth later. I have a bit about it up here.

I have some heartfelt advice for you: Instead of attacking those who are trying to help you - (yes, you are attacking me and my readers by calling us names) why not act as the wise person that proverbs tells us of, and heed instruction.

petitio principii

According to the Bible, you are acting the fool. You are attacking people who love you, and are trying to help you.

Appeal to

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Nancy Parode said...

I am so sad that sarcasm and name-calling are used in the name of Christ. I admit I have not read this entire exchange, nor will I if I have to go to Candy's blog to do so. I am so done with her mean-spirited comments. I've been taught since childhood that no one knows for sure whom God has condemned, yet Candy says she knows because she can quote Bible verses. ???

Anonymous said...

Holy Cow Batman...was the first thing that came to mind when I read this.

That's all I have to say that is acceptable.

Tracy said...

Thank you for that Elena.. I needed to laugh!!

unknown anon said...

I suspect that part of her condemnation is a result of her ignorance about the "anathemas" of Trent. She seems to be very fond of throwing that around, and clearly does not understand the technical definition of the term. She has a 'common' understanding of the word. She may feel as if the anathema means that Catholics consider her soul to be in jeopardy, and that she in turn is making the same judgement. Of course, we don't make that determination, and anathema doesn't mean what she thinks it means.

That's my attempt at charity for the day. ;)

Chrissy said...
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catthief said...
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angie said...

OK, the followers of Candy's cult continue to address me, and I vowed not to comment there again. Please, someone stop me, tie my typing hands behind my back, something! Where in the world do these people come from? I feel like I am being poked and prodded, and I don't like it one bit.

Tracy said...
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angie said...

No worries Tracy- I won't. Thanks for the encouragement.

unknown anon said...

Why is it that her writings are evidence of her love and concern for our souls, but our writings are attacks?

Could not we be motivated by the exact same sentiments as she is? A love and concern for her immortal soul? The desire that all should come to know, love, and serve the Lord?

Clare said...

WOW things have really heated up since Candys latest offerings. What a contrast to come over here. The tone is so different, reasoned and thoughtful.
Thank you Elena, Kelly and Erika. The job you are doing here is so significant and needed. Thank God for women like you who actually defend your faith. I am so impressed. Well done!!

Tracy said...

Hey Clare, welcome and thanks for the kind words about this site, I too think the gals here do a wonderful job:)

Anne-Marie said...

You know, having read Susan's post, and her original comment, I am horrified at Candy's response. Calling her "rediculous" or what ever when she was, actually, very respectful and concise.

It's so cowardly to write such a nasty response with out even posting the original comment. So all her loyal fans can gasp in horror at those mean old RCs and their hell-bound friends.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I am.

Tracy said...
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angie said...

A woman named Lori says to me at KTH that if I know something different, I should explain it using scripture. Every single time I have used scripture, Candy discredits me and says that I am using my RC "filter."

What do you ladies think Candy would say if asked whether or not she is infallible when interpreting scripture? Just curious.

Nancy Parode said...


Honestly, I would just give up on KTH. No matter which verse you quote, Candy will find something wrong with it...or she just won't publish your comment, so your hard work will vanish.

I have never, ever figured out how people can say they take the Bible literally, as the true word of God, and then totally ignore "unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood..." you get the idea, I'm sure. For literalists, it's subjective interpretation.

For me, staying away from KTH is essential to my mental well-being, but it is hard, very hard, to walk away from a fight. The problem is, over there it is like you with both arms tied behind your back (or lopped off like the knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail!). Candy won't give anyone a level playing field, or even access thereto.

Truthfully, you can't change their minds via comments at KTH, because Candy will distort and twist anything you write that she is willing to publish. That's not a pejorative statement, it is fact, and I'm sure the writers here will agree.

I have come to the conclusion, for myself, anyway, that staying away from KTH is better for me and my family. I am more cheerful. I can help over here by supporting new readers and adding what I know about the Catholic faith to the comment boxes...and I can ask non-Catholics about their beliefs in a respectful way.

I've learned (and will keep on learning!) so much from this blog and I have already been called to use it in another part of my life, to try to bring dear friends back to the Church. God's plan goes beyond our understanding...and perhaps part of His plan is for you to find the friendly and civil people here.

It hurts to give up. I feel tempted to go over there and read all the comments and back you up, but I know already that my help will be rejected.

I think Candy would tell you that she isn't interpreting scripture, but that God told her what truth was as she read the KJV Bible.

The biggest problem is that you can back up your position with scripture all day long, but only one person chooses which comments are published.

Elena has similar control over this blog, but she states the ground rules up front (and they don't include things like "I only publish truth"), and she demands civil, rational discourse from all of us, beginning with herself.

I am sorry if all of this sounds like bad isn't. There are places you can ask and receive, seek and find. There are blogs open to civil discourse. KTH is so focused on motes in others' eyes. At least over here, if I have a beam in my eye, I can count on someone to say, "You know, I saw that mote, too, but I have to point out that there is a beam jutting out from your forehead...can I help?"

BIG difference. I will pray for you tonight.

angie said...

Nancy- I completely agree with you. For my own peace and happiness I just need to completely stay away from there. It's like a cesspool of hatred, and when I read there, I find myself getting in a really bad mood and even being short with my children. This blog is a treasure trove of information and support. I will definitely stop wasting my time being sad over anti-Catholic bigotry. Thanks for your words of wisdom.

Nancy Parode said...

I don't think I am wise at all, Angie, just sad that so much meanness can be perpetuated in the name of Jesus. Every Sunday at Mass I'm struck by how much Christ did for us and how little I have to offer in return.

Anonymous said...

"Why is it that her writings are evidence of her love and concern for our souls, but our writings are attacks?"
That is what I don't understand. Her commenters were accusing me of attacking when I had emphasised in my original comment (which they had not seen so had no basis for judging) that I was not attacking her.

Elena said...

OK I think we're done with this one too. Logical fallacies really are good to study. Once you familiarize yourself with them it will clear up your logical thinking and the way you present your points. I'm starting my high schooler on them as well!

The Nizor site is a good one to bookmark! If you liked this post don't forget to Stumble, twitter, Digg, facebook etc.!!