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Showing posts with label VVG saints. Show all posts
Showing posts with label VVG saints. Show all posts

Tuesday, April 1, 2008

Catholic Necromancy

There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer [necromancy - the black art of speaking to the dead]. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Deuteronomy 8:10-12

Is necromancy just speaking to the dead, as per Candy's definition?

Merriam Webster says 1 : conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events

Dictionary.com says
1.a method of divination through alleged communication with the dead; black art.

Catholic Encyclopedia says "a special mode of divination by the evocation of the dead.

Clearly there is more to necromancy than just speaking to the dead. How many times do people go to a cemetery and speak to someone at their grave site? Is that necromancy?

Necromancy would include summoning or communicating with the dead for manipulation in some way, usually for information. As a Biblical example, in 1 Samuel 28, Saul has a witch summon the soul of Samuel in order to get information on how to win the war with the Philistines.

Any sort of occult activity is prohibited by the Catholic Church:

CCC #2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another's credulity.


When Catholics ask for the prayers of Mary, or any other saint, we are not expecting them to appear before us. We are not asking for information. We are simply asking them to join their prayers to ours, in the same way that we ask our friends and family to pray for us.

Yes, but they're dead, you might reply. But, Luke 20:38 says "For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him."

Well, they aren't aware of us in heaven, you insist. However, Hebrews 12:1 says that "we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses."

Additional reading at Catholic Answers and Scripture Catholic.


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Handling point #3

From Keepingthehome.com - Candy's article Vatican vs. God (see side bar)
Vatican says - That the Catholic Church canonizes saints: "On November 12, 1950 Pope Pius XII beatified Marguerite Bourgeoys. Canonizing her this October 31, 1982, Pope John Paul II gives the Canadian Church its first woman saint."

"On November 5, 1947 Pope Pius XII beatified Jeanne Delanoue. This October 31, 1982 Pope John Paul 11 singles out for the people of God yet another saint, Saint Jeanne Delanoue."

"A new miracle attributed to the intercession of Blessed Francis Anthony was approved with the decree of March 21, 1985, by the Holy Father, John Paul II."

The Catholic Church has a 6-step process that a person must qualify under, for them to be canonized as a saint. You can read their canonization process

What does God say? - Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? - 1 Corinthians 6:2

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: -1 Colossians 1:2

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. -Revelation 14:12

Candy seems to have a basic misunderstanding of what a saint is according to the Catholic Church. According to the catechism:

1023 Those who die in God's grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they "see him as he is," face to face:598

961 The term "communion of saints" refers also to the communion of "holy persons" (sancti) in Christ who "died for all," so that what each one does or suffers in and for Christ bears fruit for all.

So a saint is a holy person and we are all called to be saints!

Now it is true that Catholics do have a process of canonization which is a special way of recognizing people who lived exemplary lives of holiness.

828 By canonizing some of the faithful, i.e., by solemnly proclaiming that they practiced heroic virtue and lived in fidelity to God's grace, the Church recognizes the power of the Spirit of holiness within her and sustains the hope of believers by proposing the saints to them as models and intercessors.303 "The saints have always been the source and origin of renewal in the most difficult moments in the Church's history."304 Indeed, "holiness is the hidden source and infallible measure of her apostolic activity and missionary zeal."305

This is totally scriptural! From Catholic Culture:

We may see in the concluding chapters of the Book of Ecclesiasticus an attempt to draw up a formal list of the saints of the Old Testament. "Let us praise men of renown, and our fathers in their generation…their glory shall not be forsaken. Their bodies are buried in peace, and their name liveth unto generation and generation. Let the people show forth their wisdom and the Church declare their praise" (chapter 44). The writer then gives his list, Henoch, Noe, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Aaron, etc.

So the fundamental reasons for the canonization of saints is two-fold:
1) to acknowledge the holiness and sanctity of the lives they led, and 2) to set these individuals forth as examples for the faithful here on earth. Just as aspiring athletes look to professional athletes for inspiration and example, so do Catholics look to the saints for the same.

The scriptures say further:

For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us... - 2 Thess 3:7

And you became imitators of us and of the Lord... - 1 Thess 1:6

Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. - 1 Cor 11:1

I submit then that nothing in Candy’s scriptural quotes is contrary to the teachings of the church!

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: -1 Colossians 1:2

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. -Revelation 14:12

I will however submit that Candy deliberately took the first scripture out of context simply to try to make her point. The entire context is about LAWSUITS! Not canonizing saints!

1 Corinthians 6

Lawsuits Discouraged

1Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and (A)not before the saints?

2Or (B)do you not know that (C)the saints will judge (D)the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

3(E)Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?

4So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church?

5(F)I say this to your shame Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his (G)brethren,

6but brother goes to law with brother, and that before (H)unbelievers?

7Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. (I)Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?

I submit once again that Candy’s research and argumentation are incomplete, and display her misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church actually teaches. Further, I would encourage anyone who readers her articles to do their own research and at the very least, follow up her scriptural choices to see the context!

Resources:

http://www.deoomnisgloria.com/archives/2004/02/canonization_wh.html

Catholic Culture





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