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Wednesday, April 9, 2008

Whore of Babylon, Part II

Continuing with the second part of Candy's post where she actually addresses doctrinal issues . . .

Moving on... We know that whatever this false religious system is, it must be a type of counterfeit of true Christianity, else, there'd be no reason for the Bible to say the following:

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. -Revelation 18:4

This verse referred to one group of people being separated from another, but it does not specify a religion. I think it brings to mind the parable of the wheat and the tares.

Matthew 13:30: Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Therefore, a real Christian knows that they can get to heaven ONLY via Jesus, and no other way. Christians believe and know this. Does the Roman Catholic religion agree with this biblical Christian doctrine, taught by Jesus?

Candy then quotes, not from the Catechism directly, but from "Are Roman Catholics Saved," which quotes from the Catechism.

"We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere 'to the end' and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ," (Catechism of the Catholic Church, par. 1821).

I would guess that the offense here is the mention of good works. Notice that the Catechism says that they are "accomplished with the grace of Christ." As you will read in the book of James, faith without works is dead.

"Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification," (CCC, par. 2010)

This is not a full quotation. Let us read the entire paragraph:
Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God's wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

When Candy prays for a person, what response does she expect? If Candy prays for someone, she is asking that God grant them graces, because she asked for them. This is what the paragraph is saying. Through our prayers, or fasting, we are asking for God to pour out his grace on those for whom we are praying.

If you are praying for the conversion of someone, you are asking that God grant them the graces needed to convert, i.e., through your prayer, "merit for others the graces needed for sanctification."

What is the point of prayer? Why would a non-Catholic pray for the conversion of someone if they didn't feel it would be effective in some way?

Now, neither of these quotations were actually intended to speak about Jesus being the only way of salvation.

CCC #161: Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation. "Since "without faith it is impossible to please [God]" and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life 'But he who endures to the end.'"

#169: Salvation comes from God alone

#1741: Liberation and salvation. By his glorious Cross Christ has won salvation for all men. He redeemed them from the sin that held them in bondage. "For freedom Christ has set us free." In him we have communion with the "truth that makes us free." The Holy Spirit has been given to us and, as the Apostle teaches, "Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom." Already we glory in the "liberty of the children of God."

#620: Our salvation flows from God's initiative of love for us, because "he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins" (1 Jn 4:10). "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself" (2 Cor 5:19).


Jesus says that we are saved through Him only, but the Roman Catholic Church says that there are works/deeds that must be done as well.

Again, notice the lack of reference to the Catechism.

CCC #1427 It is by faith in the Gospel and by Baptism that one renounces evil and gains salvation, that is, the forgiveness of all sins and the gift of new life.

#2005 Since it belongs to the supernatural order, grace escapes our experience and cannot be known except by faith. We cannot therefore rely on our feelings or our works to conclude that we are justified and saved. However, according to the Lord's words "Thus you will know them by their fruits"- reflection on God's blessings in our life and in the lives of the saints offers us a guarantee that grace is at work in us and spurs us on to an ever greater faith and an attitude of trustful poverty.

However, the Catechism is a book of doctrines that we hold, not refutations, so I can't actually produce a paragraph saying that we don't believe in works salvation.


Let's see what others have to say about the Whore of Babylon

What we have here is an appeal to tradition. If each person is capable of interpreting Scripture on his own, then why do we need Bible commentaries to guide us in interpretation?

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6 comments:

unknown anon said...

Kelly--

Sorry to say, but it's not just you.....some of the print is sooooooo tiny that it just looks like a pink line to me.

Perplexity said...

Yeah, Candy's print is all off in here. It's too tiny to read.

Perplexity said...

Oops, I hit post rather than preview...The first lines of her text are readable, if small. (Moving on...) The next lines are too small to even read. The final lines of hers are larger than your text.

I use Firefox, and always thought it was just me.

Milehimama said...

So interesting! Just last night at my Bible study (*GASP* A Catholic Bible Study!) we were studying the parable of the marriage feast in Matt. 22. If you remember, the king threw one of the guests out into the darkness because he didn't have a wedding garment. Further study reveals that the wedding garment is ... the Righteous Deeds of the Saints!

Have you tried to copy and paste Candy's text into Word, and then back into Blogger? I use Firefox too.

Joy said...

The only thing that works for me when I get strange sizes is to go through the html erasing all the font tags which are enclosed in < >. After everything is the same size & color, I go back through on the 'compose' side and redo the particular lines in the size & color I want them to be.

Kelly said...

Joy, your tip really helped. I've got it fixed in both articles now. Thanks everyone!