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Showing posts with label Mary. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Mary. Show all posts

Sunday, September 6, 2009

Assumption talk

Really guys! It is helpful if you keep comments on the blog topic so that when people are looking for information on the Assumption, they can find it!

I'm going to try and gather several of the comments together here, so that those who wish to continue discussing may do so.

Elena pasted from this article:

The Assumption is the oldest feast day of Our Lady, but we don't know how it first came to be celebrated.

Its origin is lost in those days when Jerusalem was restored as a sacred city, at the time of the Roman Emperor Constantine (c. 285-337). By then it had been a pagan city for two centuries, ever since Emperor Hadrian (76-138) had leveled it around the year 135 and rebuilt it as Aelia Capitolina in honor of Jupiter.

For 200 years, every memory of Jesus was obliterated from the city, and the sites made holy by His life, death and Resurrection became pagan temples.

After the building of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in 336, the sacred sites began to be restored and memories of the life of Our Lord began to be celebrated by the people of Jerusalem. One of the memories about his mother centered around the "Tomb of Mary," close to Mount Zion, where the early Christian community had lived.

On the hill itself was the "Place of Dormition," the spot of Mary's "falling asleep," where she had died. The "Tomb of Mary" was where she was buried.

At this time, the "Memory of Mary" was being celebrated. Later it was to become our feast of the Assumption.

For a time, the "Memory of Mary" was marked only in Palestine, but then it was extended by the emperor to all the churches of the East. In the seventh century, it began to be celebrated in Rome under the title of the "Falling Asleep" ("Dormitio") of the Mother of God.
I said to Jennie:

Well, I hope you don't celebrate Christmas, or worship on Sunday, or use grape juice instead of wine for the Lord's Supper. Because that all sounds good, but none of it is from Scripture.

Jennie replied:

I don't consider Christmas as a part of church doctrine. It's a tradition that some celebrate as part of church worship and some celebrate as just a family and cultural tradition. It's certainly not something that was commanded in scripture or done in the early church.

As to the other things, they are not major doctrines pertaining to salvation, but would be considered matters of freedom and conscience, as to what day to worship, and whether to use alcoholic wine for communion. There is not agreement on them, so we should do as conscience dictates. We don't believe traditions are bad, just that they must be in line with scripture.

The RC doctrines of Mary are not taught in scripture AND are in contradiction to it. They are myths with no historical support and, in protestant eyes, should not be believed and certainly should not be dogmas that everyone must believe. In the firm belief of many Christians, they take away from the supremacy of Christ and the gospel message, and point people to Mary instead.

I then wrote:

I get very frustrated that things non-Catholic Christians do which are traditions are always okay, even though they aren't Scriptural. Anything Catholics do which smack of tradition (such as pray the rosary) is met with the accusation that it isn't in the Bible, and therefore shouldn't be done.

How does the Assumption contradict Scripture, which is silent on what happened to Mary. Elijah and Enoch were assumed into heaven.

I would also disagree that there is no historical support. In my blog entry which I linked to earlier, you can see that the church which holds Mary's empty tomb is still around. Historical accounts always refer to an empty tomb.

It isn't as if there are accounts of the body being there, and then at a certain point they change to describing an empty tomb, as it would if the body were stolen.

Jennie's response:

I haven't heard of Mary's empty tomb. When does history speak of it? I've heard of many people going to the Holy Land to see Jesus' empty tomb, but not Mary's. I'll go back and look at your earlier blog entry.

The Bible records Jesus' resurrection and ascension, and earlier as you said it records Elijah and Enoch being taken up into heaven alive, so if Mary was assumed and it's so important to Christianity, why is it not recorded in scripture and testified to by early believers by many eyewitnesses as Jesus' death and resurrection and ascension were?

It looks like all the documents that refer to the assumption are from the 5th century or later. That's not the same as the eyewitness accounts of Christ and the historical accounts from the same period as Christ that speak of the events of the time. It still looks like the Mary stories came in later as myths.

Clare chimed in with:

It is a little bit intriguing to observe the lack of relics of Mary. No 'true bones' or anything.

The early church ( and this habit persists) tended to treat the mortal remains of saints with great care and reverence.


Daughter of Wisdom wrote this (in response to Clare):

I can shed a little light on why the body of Mary was not found.

The burial practices of 1st century Jews were markedly different from the modern burial practices of today, or of our culture. In first century Jewry, bodies were not embalmed or preserved. The body was anointed with special herbs such as myrrh or aloes to mask the stench as the body decomposed. Once the body had decomposed, the bones were taken and placed in a box called an ossuary, which contained all the bones of a particular family. These ossuaries were then stored in special burial caves where they could be retrieved at any time so that new bones from newly deceased family members could be added. For more information see Ossuary.

Another thing: The name Mary was very common back then. It would have been difficult to next to impossible for a devout Catholic who came along hundreds of years later (as there were no Roman Catholics in the first century) to to determine which bones belonged to Mary of Nazareth. The destruction of familial records by the then Roman empire, and the Jewish diaspora of 70 A.D would also make it virtually impossible for people to identify remains.

Conclusion: No body of Mary because the body had rotted away, and the documentation to identify the bones were destroyed.

Finally, Barbara wrote:

Much of what is known about Mary is found in the NT apocrypha. While some of these books were rejected from the official canon as heretical, others were rejected because their authorship was questioned, not their validity. Other things were passed down in oral tradition.

The reason that many doctrines about Mary were officially declared was in response to those questioning Jesus' humanity. Jesus was fully human because his mother was fully human. Would you not agree that a central tenent is that Christ was both human and divine.
---------------

Now, let us try to get back to the original question. How does the doctrine of the Assumption contradict Scripture?

The only response I've heard is that it would have been an important enough event that it should have been in Scripture. That is not proof of contradiction, folks.

Can God assume bodies into Heaven? Yes, there is Biblical proof of this.
Is Mary's death recorded in Scripture? No, it is not.
Therefore, this doctrine does not explicitly contradict Scripture.

Going back to Jennie's other original assertion, that traditions practiced by non-Catholic Christians are not major doctrines, but matters of personal choice in minor matters, I would point out the the doctrine of the Trinity is a major cornerstone of Christianity which was not explicitly mentioned in Scripture. It was also not agreed upon by the early Christians for this reason. The early church was nearly torn apart by this controversy, but eventually Arianism was declared a heresy.

So yes, Jennie, it is possible for major doctrines to not be explicitly found in Scripture.


As to the history of Mary. At the crucifixion of Jesus, Jesus gave Mary into the care of the apostle John. It is widely believed that Mary went to live with John in the city of Ephesus. The place where the house stood is a place of pilgrimage for both Christians and Muslims today. While the upper part of the house is newer, the foundations date back to the 1st century.

While Mary lived there, it is reasonable to assume that the disciples of Jesus came to visit her there. Luke does not name his "eyewitnesses" but from whom else would he have heard of the circumstances of the birth of Jesus? Was elderly Elizabeth still around to tell how John the Baptist leaped in her womb when Mary came to visit her?

St. John died and was buried in Ephesus, where a church was erected over his grave. The remains of it are still there. Similarly, the location of the tomb of Mary is still remembered with a church, which was built over the site of 1st century burial caves.

These people were very important to the early Christians. They began collecting "relics" from them. In Acts 19:11-12 it is recorded that people were healed of illness and possession by being touched by aprons or handkerchiefs which had touched Paul. That proved so successful, they kept track of Paul when he died.

The early Christians visited tombs of the martyrs and of significant Christians regularly. There exists ample historical evidence of this in the form of 1st century graffiti on the tombs. The Christians honored and remembered their dead. They made pilgrimage to their tombs. And when the persecution was over, churches were erected on these sites.

Consider the most significant example of this, the tomb of St. Peter in Rome. No, we can't prove that the DNA on the bones matches that of St. Peter. But it is becoming clear that with so many of these sites, they do date back to the earliest times. Christians honored and remembered their dead.



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Saturday, August 15, 2009

Feast of the Assumption

Repost from last year.







Today is the feast day of the Assumption of Mary. This is the doctrine that, at the end of her life, Mary was bodily assumed into Heaven. The Catholic Church has not defined whether or not she actually died, but it is traditional to believe that she was assumed after her death. She did not ascend to Heaven by her own power, as Jesus did, but was assumed in another way.

I've often thought this should be one of the easier Catholic Marian doctrines. I've often heard "But it isn't in the Bible!" There are lots of things not recorded in the Bible that still happened. For example, tradition says that St. Thomas carried the Gospel to India, and there is evidence that it happened. The knowledge of what happened to Mary after her death is not necessary for salvation.

Also, there is biblical precedent for humans being assumed into heaven. Ever hear of Enoch and Elijah?

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

We have written several times about the parallels between Mary and the Ark of the Covenant. If the Ark, which contained God, was hidden until the end of the time, then why should Mary's body, which also contained God, be left on Earth to decay?

2 Mac 2:5-7
When Jeremiah arrived there, he found a room in a cave in which he put the tent, the ark, and the altar of incense; then he blocked up the entrance. Some of those who followed him came up intending to mark the path, but they could not find it.
When Jeremiah heard of this, he reproved them: "The place is to remain unknown until God gathers his people together again and shows them mercy.

You can read a short history of the celebration of this feast.

After the building of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in 336, the sacred sites began to be restored and memories of the life of Our Lord began to be celebrated by the people of Jerusalem. One of the memories about his mother centered around the "Tomb of Mary," close to Mount Zion, where the early Christian community had lived.

On the hill itself was the "Place of Dormition," the spot of Mary's "falling asleep," where she had died. The "Tomb of Mary" was where she was buried.

At this time, the "Memory of Mary" was being celebrated. Later it was to become our feast of the Assumption. . .

Soon the name was changed to the "Assumption of Mary," since there was more to the feast than her dying. It also proclaimed that she had been taken up, body and soul, into heaven.

That belief was ancient, dating back to the apostles themselves. What was clear from the beginning was that there were no relics of Mary to be venerated, and that an empty tomb stood on the edge of Jerusalem near the site of her death. That location also soon became a place of pilgrimage. (Today, the Benedictine Abbey of the Dormition of Mary stands on the spot.)

At the Council of Chalcedon in 451, when bishops from throughout the Mediterranean world gathered in Constantinople, Emperor Marcian asked the Patriarch of Jerusalem to bring the relics of Mary to Constantinople to be enshrined in the capitol. The patriarch explained to the emperor that there were no relics of Mary in Jerusalem, that "Mary had died in the presence of the apostles; but her tomb, when opened later . . . was found empty and so the apostles concluded that the body was taken up into heaven."


This website contains the text of early Christian documents relating to the death and assumption of Mary.

Scripture Catholic has quotations from the early Church regarding this doctrine.

“If the Holy Virgin had died and was buried, her falling asleep would have been surrounded with honour, death would have found her pure, and her crown would have been a virginal one...Had she been martyred according to what is written: 'Thine own soul a sword shall pierce', then she would shine gloriously among the martyrs, and her holy body would have been declared blessed; for by her, did light come to the world."
Epiphanius, Panarion, 78:23 (A.D. 377).

"[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lord's chosen ones..." Gregory of Tours, Eight Books of Miracles, 1:4 (inter A.D. 575-593).

"As the most glorious Mother of Christ, our Savior and God and the giver of life and immortality, has been endowed with life by him, she has received an eternal incorruptibility of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb and has taken her up to himself in a way known only to him." Modestus of Jerusalem, Encomium in dormitionnem Sanctissimae Dominae nostrae Deiparae semperque Virginis Mariae (PG 86-II,3306),(ante A.D. 634).

"It was fitting ...that the most holy-body of Mary, God-bearing body, receptacle of God, divinised, incorruptible, illuminated by divine grace and full glory ...should be entrusted to the earth for a little while and raised up to heaven in glory, with her soul pleasing to God." Theoteknos of Livias, Homily on the Assumption (ante A.D. 650).


You can view photos of Mary's tomb and the church built over it at this website.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009

Marian Images

Photobucket

Candy loves to post images of alleged Marian worship. She especially likes the image of Mary with the nail marks in her hands. She specifically points it out in the beginning of her article.

The thing is, that is not a Catholic image. I have only seen that image on fundamentalist sites such as Jesus Is Lord. If anyone can point me to a Catholic site using it, please post in the comments. I believe the stars on Mary's veil are closest to the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe, but it is not the same image.

Our Lady of Guadalupe Pictures, Images and Photos

There are many images of Mary which a Catholic would recognize as common depictions. None of them include nail marks in the hands of Mary. This image is simply an exaggeration, intending to prove the point of Catholic Mary worship.

our lady of jasna gora Pictures, Images and Photos


Mary has long been honored in the Catholic tradition for her sufferings, but her sufferings are not the same as those of Jesus. The sufferings of Mary are known as the Seven Sorrows of the Blessed Virgin Mary. They are not physical sorrows, but mental ones.

The Prophecy of Simeon
The Flight into Egypt
The Loss of Jesus in the Temple
The Meeting of Jesus and Mary on the Way of the Cross
The Crucifixion
The Taking Down of the Body of Jesus from the Cross
Jesus laid in the Tomb



Our Lady of the Seven Sorrows Pictures, Images and Photos


Mary says that her soul magnifies the glory of the Lord, and the Seven Sorrows of Mary illustrate that. As in any Marian devotion, it draws us to Jesus. The sorrows of Mary take us through Jesus' life and death. Seeing them through the eyes of His mother give us new insight into His suffering and death. Who would want to be killed before their mother?

The Catholic Mary does not seek to replace Jesus, or to be another saviour. She only seeks to draw us to her Son. She wants us to "Do whatever He tells you."

Photobucket



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Saturday, March 14, 2009

Back In The Saddle Again

New readers to Candy's blog (which is looking more like a blog and less like a website every day) might wonder why Candy didn't have time to elaborate on her Titus 2 Notebook idea yesterday, but has an extremely long article on the rapture up today. Which would be more of a help to a homemaker? However, long-time readers will recognize that this is a recycling of several of her previously written articles. She had done a little editing, though.

First, the disclaimer is quite new. Candy says:

DISCLAIMER: I most certainly am not inerrant. The following article is just what I've so far found from my personal Bible studies...

This is quite a departure from Candy's normal lack of humility on Biblical interpretation. For example, in a letter to the pastor of an IFB church, she wrote:

I learned about proper doctrine from none other but the Bible. I've read through the Bible over 18 times (KJV). I didn't learn doctrine from church, religious upbringing, or other forms of religious teaching. I never went to church until at the age of 17, when I got saved. I refuse to believe man, unless that man be Christ Himself. I fancy myself to be like a Berean; I test everything against scripture. Since I have no previous religious teaching, I have an advantage. I don't have specific doctrines taught to me by man, but only what I got from the Bible.

Kudos to Candy for the change. Half of our disagreements with Candy stem from her habit of insisting that everything she writes is FACT! and not her personal opinion.

Now, she does recycle this tired old bit of "truth":

I dare say that some religions worship Semiramis and Baal under the names Mary and Jesus. You can tell the false Mary and Jesus from the real ones, via the way the people worship. For example, are they bowing down to statues and figurines of Mary? Are these people praying to Mary as the "mediatrix," instead of to God, in Jesus' name? Jesus is the one and only Mediator - 1 Timothy 2:5.

I guess she still hasn't gotten around to reading our Something About Mary article which would clear up her confusion about Mary's role as mediatrix.

Further down, she discusses the Middle Eastern peace treaty, the abomination of desolation, and the antichrist. Notice the utter lack of reference to the Catholic Church (though it is alluded to in some of the previous paragraphs):

The "he" that will plant the tabernacle of his palace in the glorious holy mountain is the antichrist. This is mentioning the same thing as Daniel 9:27, which is called the "abomination of desolation," elsewhere in scripture. The "trouble" (AKA Jacob's Trouble) is mentioned as happening after the palace is planted in the glorious mountain. Hence, we see that the time being discussed in the above passage is again the middle of the tribulation/peace treaty.

Contrast this with some of her previous statements:

(October 2008)
Russia has laid out the introduction. They have made the way open for the Pope to step in and be the ecumenical, council of religions "hero."

And, of course, the Pope needs to get in on the action, because the Roman Catholic ecumenical church will likely be the head of the whore:

"The Pope's leading of the Supplication of the Blessed Virgin of the Rosary, a prayer written by Blessed Bartolo Longo (1841-1926) was one of the high points of this 12th pastoral trip in Italy.

'We implore you to have pity today on the nations that have gone astray, on all Europe, on the whole world, that they might repent and return to your [Mary's] heart,' the text of the prayer reads.


(April 2008)
I recently finished reading the Bible again. Every time through, I'm just shocked when I read Revelation chapter 17. Who/what could that chapter be discussing?

The Whore of Babylon sits over a city. That city sits atop 7 hills, and is under a strong religious influence. There is only one city that fits this description, and that is Rome.


We also read of the Whore (the religious system) being drunk on the blood of saints (the Bible tells us that another word for Christian is saint). Certainly many Christians have been killed from Muslims, but more so from the Roman Catholic Church. For example, Pope Innocent killed 70,000 Christians in one day, - that is more than all of the Caesars of Rome put together.

During the Inquisition and burnings, Christians were killed because they refused to convert to Roman Catholicism. This is not Christian or Christ like. Christ said that after you've told someone the Gospel message, if they don't accept it, you are to just shake the dust off of your feet and move on. To see an example of historical religious killings, by Roman Catholics killing Christians, watch the movie Elizabeth (the first one is the best). . .

This is another reason why Roman Catholicism sounds like it's the Whore of Babylon. What other religion out there is VERY big, has a foothold in most nations, proclaims itself to be Christian, yet teaches doctrines at enmity with the Bible, and has real Christians within it, that need to "come out of her?" I only know of one religion that fits the bill, and that is Roman Catholicism.

(July 2007)
The new Pope (Vicar of Christ - the Greek roots of 'vicar' is "ante", AKA Greek Vicar of Christ = antichrist) proclaimed the other day that you are saved ONLY by being a member of the Roman Catholic church. Of course, anyone who has read his or her Bible knows that that is not true.

Well, I could keep quoting Candy saying that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon and the Pope is the Antichrist all day, but my baby will be awake soon, so I'll stop there. My point is, she DIDN'T say that this time, and she easily could have. I could have seen this on any number of fundamentalist homemaker sites, and while it isn't correct, it isn't as over the top as Candy normally is.

Now that I've said that, she'll probably bring out her big guns, but Candy, don't take it as a personal challenge. It isn't. It's me saying, good job learning from your mistakes. I don't agree with your theology, but thanks for toning down the personal attacks.

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Saturday, January 24, 2009

With so much going on in the country and the world right now, Candy seems to be fretting a lot in her Oklahoma trailer about...the Catholics? She has a huge rambling post about the evils of Catholicism again.


I, on the other hand, have a life. So I don't have time to get into all of her points (again). This weekend. One of my son's is having a big 16th birthday bash tonight! On the other hand I'm sure Kelly and her little guy are just enjoying their babymoon! So in the spirit of having better things to do with our lives, I hope that those of you looking for rebuttals to Candy Brauer's post today at keepingthehome.com (Keeping The Home) will settle for a few reruns! I'll try to keep them going during the weekend.


There is no need for any religious Church "Masses:


Jesus said to keep the sabbath day holy and that if you love Him you will keep His commandments. Attending mass every week is the "Catholic way" of doing what Jesus said.

Catechism Catholic Church:
2042 The first precept ("You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor") requires the faithful to sanctify the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord as well as the principal liturgical feasts honoring the Mysteries of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the saints; in the first place, by participating in the Eucharistic celebration, in which the Christian community is gathered, and by resting from those works and activities which could impede such a sanctification of these days.


Priests of any kind are now obsolete, and NOT needed:



Someone should have told Jesus and the apostles! Because not only did Jesus designate the apostles specifically to keep his ministry going, they also "ordained" others to help them!

Catechism Catholic Church:
1536 Holy Orders is the sacrament through which the mission entrusted by Christ to his apostles continues to be exercised in the Church until the end of time: thus it is the sacrament of apostolic ministry. It includes three degrees: episcopate, presbyterate, and diaconate.


We have one mediator, and one mediator only, and that is Jesus Christ:
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; -1 Timothy 2:5


Catechism Catholic Church
The one priesthood of Christ
1544 Everything that the priesthood of the Old Covenant prefigured finds its fulfillment in Christ Jesus, the "one mediator between God and men."15 The Christian tradition considers Melchizedek, "priest of God Most High," as a prefiguration of the priesthood of Christ, the unique "high priest after the order of Melchizedek";16 "holy, blameless, unstained,"17 "by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified,"18 that is, by the unique sacrifice of the cross.
1545 The redemptive sacrifice of Christ is unique, accomplished once for all; yet it is made present in the Eucharistic sacrifice of the Church. The same is true of the one priesthood of Christ; it is made present through the ministerial priesthood without diminishing the uniqueness of Christ's priesthood: "Only Christ is the true priest, the others being only his ministers."19
Two participations in the one priesthood of Christ
1546 Christ, high priest and unique mediator, has made of the Church "a kingdom, priests for his God and Father."20 The whole community of believers is, as such, priestly. The faithful exercise their baptismal priesthood through their participation, each according to his own vocation, in Christ's mission as priest, prophet, and king. Through the sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation the faithful are "consecrated to be . . . a holy priesthood."21
1547 The ministerial or hierarchical priesthood of bishops and priests, and the common priesthood of all the faithful participate, "each in its own proper way, in the one priesthood of Christ." While being "ordered one to another," they differ essentially.22 In what sense? While the common priesthood of the faithful is exercised by the unfolding of baptismal grace --a life of faith, hope, and charity, a life according to the Spirit--, the ministerial priesthood is at the service of the common priesthood. It is directed at the unfolding of the baptismal grace of all Christians. The ministerial priesthood is a means by which Christ unceasingly builds up and leads his Church. For this reason it is transmitted by its own sacrament, the sacrament of Holy Orders.




There is no canonization process or church you have to go to or through to become a saint of God.
On Canonization - we've been there, done that. But because of invincible ignorance our rebuttals have never been acknowledged or addressed.  Nonetheless, it's part of our Vatican Vs. God rebuttal and you can read it here. Kelly also takes on the topic here.


We don't have to eat any Eucharist wafer, and think that we are eating Jesus in the form of a wafer. Where is Jesus Christ

We, SO HIT THIS OUT OF THE BALL PARK here.

Yes, the ancient Babylonians believed in a woman who procalimed herself a virgin, in whose husband (Nimrod, from Genesis) died. The woman claimed to be a virgin, and delivered a baby, which she taught was Nimrod come back from the dead. 

Thus, to become a saint involves no works or rituals - AT ALL. This is why Jesus said - It Is Finished


Mary and pagan stuff is here.

And now a personal note to Candy. I know you read here Candy. I know you're ticked that we show up so well in Google for people looking for your blog!  But really, can you give us some new material?  Thanks a bunch!


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Friday, November 21, 2008

Praying the Hail Mary

Edward Sri's "Praying the Hail Mary Like Never Before."

When asked by our protestant friends why Catholics worship Mary, we may quickly reply, "We don't worship her; we honor her." When asked why we pray to Mary, we might respond, "We don't pray to her; we ask her to pray for us."

Such "Apologetics 101" moves may express certain truths about Marian devotion and can be very helpful in initial conversations with our non-Catholic brethren. However, if we stop there, we may fail to communicate the full splendor of God's revelation about our Blessed Mother and the beautiful role she plays in our lives.

That was precisely my experience with the Hail Mary.

For many years, whenever I was asked about why Catholics pray the Hail Mary, I explained that it was a prayer in which we ask the mother of Jesus to pray for us. Since Mary is so close to her Son in heaven, she serves as an ideal intercessor whose prayers bring us closer to Jesus. And we seek Mary's intercession just like we ask each other here on earth for prayers, so it should be okay for a Christian to pray the Hail Mary, asking her to "pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death."

While all this is true, it's not the approach pope John Paul II took when explaining the Hail Mary in his apostolic letter Rosarium Virginis Mariae (RVM). For John Paul II, the Hail Mary is not just an intercessory prayer that is permissible for Christians to recite; it's actually a Christ-centered prayer that gives Jesus great praise. If we truly love Jesus, we as Christians should want to pray this prayer!




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Thursday, October 23, 2008

Apparitions and other Marian issues

Jennie has another question:

I have question to ask about apparitions of Mary. I am curious to know what you as Catholicss think of this, and of what the pope did and said at Pompeii recently: giving an offering of a golden rose to the statue of Mary and repeating a prayer: "We implore you to have pity today on the nations that have gone astray, on all Europe, on the whole world, that they might repent and return to your heart,"
With the words of Bartolo Longo, the Pontiff turned to Mary, saying: "If you will not help us because we are ungrateful and unworthy children of your protection, we will not know to whom to turn."

Did this Pompeii visit get a lot of coverage on a fundamentalist website somewhere? You and Candy have both mentioned it, and it was a pretty minor visit. I get two Catholic periodicals and it was buried in the middle of one, and not mentioned at all in the other.

I assume the pope agrees with this prayer or he would not have repeated it. In that case why does he not know to turn to God and his savior Jesus Christ the only mediator between God and men?

The Catholic Catechism, paragraph #1544 states: Everything that the priesthood of the Old Covenant prefigured finds its fulfillment in Christ Jesus, the "one mediator between God and men." The Christian tradition considers Melchizedek, "priest of God Most High," as a prefiguration of the priesthood of Christ, the unique "high priest after the order of Melchizedek"; "holy, blameless, unstained," "by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified," that is, by the unique sacrifice of the cross.

I have not been able to find the full text of Pope's message online, but from the two lines you quoted, he is asking Mary to pray for us. As I explained in a previous comment, we do not pray to Mary and the saints in the same way that we pray to God. We are asking them to pray for us, the same way that we ask our family and friends here on earth to pray for us.

We believe that God is the God of the living and not the dead, because the dead are alive to Him (Matt. 22:32; Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38) and that they are aware of us on earth, surrounding us as a great cloud of witnesses (Heb. 12:1). The saints present their prayers to God before His throne in heaven (Rev. 5:8).

You are probably referring to the Catholic title of Mary as mediatrix. Considering Mary as mediatrix does not negate Jesus as the One Mediator. This is a difference in understanding what is meant by mediatrix. When Catholics refer to Mary as Mediatrix, we saying that God entered the world through her. Jesus was physically born by a woman, and that woman was Mary. Because she cooperated with God, by saying yes to him, Jesus was able to enter the world.

Does this mean our salvation depends on her? No. But because she cooperated with God, God worked through her (mediated), and so she has been known from the earliest time of Christianity as Theotokos, or God-Bearer.

Catholic apologist Dave Armstrong gives a great answer to this question on his website.

Also the things the apparitions are quoted as saying are blasphemous, such as the Fatima
apparition that told the children that people should be willing to suffer to pay for the sins of the world, and that devotion to her immaculate heart would be the way to God. This is blasphemy: Jesus is the only way to God according to the Bible.
Other apparitions have said similar things. These things are leading many astray because of their devotion to Mary.

Apparitions of Mary are considered private revelation. The information they contain is intended only for the person or people who receive the message. Apparitions may be approved, meaning that there is nothing contrary to the faith in them. At that point, other people may read or study the message, but they are not required belief.

For more information on public versus private revelation, see this article which mentions Fatima specifically.

Regarding people being willing to suffer to pay for the sins of the world, this is what we call "redemptive suffering." It ties into Col 1:24 "Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh and I complete what is lacking in Christ's affliction for the sake of his body, that is, the church." Was Paul writing blasphemy there?

In essence, it goes back to the communion of saints, the idea that we are all tied together in Christ, in the Church.

It is similar to the very non-blasphemous ideas most people have about prayer. Suppose you pray for someone to convert. Only God can give someone the grace they need to find true faith. Do you think you are somehow giving someone faith by the action of your prayer? Do you feel that Jesus' death is not needed on the cross if you can just say a prayer and then they convert? Clearly not. It is in the same way that our prayers benefit others, that our sufferings can benefit others as well.

As far as the immaculate heart of Mary being the way to God, that relates to what I wrote above. It is through the Incarnation that we have our salvation, and as Jesus entered the world through Mary, it is, in a roundabout way, through Mary that we have found God.

And just in case you veer off into other Marian issues, you can read some of my previous articles about why Mary is not "just a vessel" here, the Assumption of Mary here, and discussion of other Marian doctrines, including what the early Church believed here.

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Friday, August 15, 2008

The Feast of the Assumption of Mary






Today is the feast day of the Assumption of Mary. This is the doctrine that, at the end of her life, Mary was bodily assumed into Heaven. The Catholic Church has not defined whether or not she actually died, but it is traditional to believe that she was assumed after her death. She did not ascend to Heaven by her own power, as Jesus did, but was assumed in another way.

I've often thought this should be one of the easier Catholic Marian doctrines. I've often heard "But it isn't in the Bible!" There are lots of things not recorded in the Bible that still happened. For example, tradition says that St. Thomas carried the Gospel to India, and there is evidence that it happened. The knowledge of what happened to Mary after her death is not necessary for salvation.

Also, there is biblical precedent for humans being assumed into heaven. Ever hear of Enoch and Elijah?

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

We have written several times about the parallels between Mary and the Ark of the Covenant. If the Ark, which contained God, was hidden until the end of the time, then why should Mary's body, which also contained God, be left on Earth to decay?

2 Mac 2:5-7
When Jeremiah arrived there, he found a room in a cave in which he put the tent, the ark, and the altar of incense; then he blocked up the entrance. Some of those who followed him came up intending to mark the path, but they could not find it.
When Jeremiah heard of this, he reproved them: "The place is to remain unknown until God gathers his people together again and shows them mercy.

You can read a short history of the celebration of this feast.

After the building of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in 336, the sacred sites began to be restored and memories of the life of Our Lord began to be celebrated by the people of Jerusalem. One of the memories about his mother centered around the "Tomb of Mary," close to Mount Zion, where the early Christian community had lived.

On the hill itself was the "Place of Dormition," the spot of Mary's "falling asleep," where she had died. The "Tomb of Mary" was where she was buried.

At this time, the "Memory of Mary" was being celebrated. Later it was to become our feast of the Assumption. . .

Soon the name was changed to the "Assumption of Mary," since there was more to the feast than her dying. It also proclaimed that she had been taken up, body and soul, into heaven.

That belief was ancient, dating back to the apostles themselves. What was clear from the beginning was that there were no relics of Mary to be venerated, and that an empty tomb stood on the edge of Jerusalem near the site of her death. That location also soon became a place of pilgrimage. (Today, the Benedictine Abbey of the Dormition of Mary stands on the spot.)

At the Council of Chalcedon in 451, when bishops from throughout the Mediterranean world gathered in Constantinople, Emperor Marcian asked the Patriarch of Jerusalem to bring the relics of Mary to Constantinople to be enshrined in the capitol. The patriarch explained to the emperor that there were no relics of Mary in Jerusalem, that "Mary had died in the presence of the apostles; but her tomb, when opened later . . . was found empty and so the apostles concluded that the body was taken up into heaven."


This website contains the text of early Christian documents relating to the death and assumption of Mary.

Scripture Catholic has quotations from the early Church regarding this doctrine.

“If the Holy Virgin had died and was buried, her falling asleep would have been surrounded with honour, death would have found her pure, and her crown would have been a virginal one...Had she been martyred according to what is written: 'Thine own soul a sword shall pierce', then she would shine gloriously among the martyrs, and her holy body would have been declared blessed; for by her, did light come to the world."
Epiphanius, Panarion, 78:23 (A.D. 377).

"[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lord's chosen ones..." Gregory of Tours, Eight Books of Miracles, 1:4 (inter A.D. 575-593).

"As the most glorious Mother of Christ, our Savior and God and the giver of life and immortality, has been endowed with life by him, she has received an eternal incorruptibility of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb and has taken her up to himself in a way known only to him." Modestus of Jerusalem, Encomium in dormitionnem Sanctissimae Dominae nostrae Deiparae semperque Virginis Mariae (PG 86-II,3306),(ante A.D. 634).

"It was fitting ...that the most holy-body of Mary, God-bearing body, receptacle of God, divinised, incorruptible, illuminated by divine grace and full glory ...should be entrusted to the earth for a little while and raised up to heaven in glory, with her soul pleasing to God." Theoteknos of Livias, Homily on the Assumption (ante A.D. 650).


You can view photos of Mary's tomb and the church built over it at this website.


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Tuesday, July 29, 2008

More Mary

Candy has two new Mary posts up, both by Mary Ann Collins, who is possibly a former nun.

I've noticed that though Candy places great emphasis on not relying on other opinions for Biblical interpretation, she posts a lot of articles that seemed to have influenced her opinion. I was actually surprised to see her quote Mary Ann Collins, because I was thinking she was going to cite an article from Jesus Is Lord titled Is Mary Jesus' Mother? I would link to it, but it seems down at the moment. Perhaps that is why she went with a different source.

I think my previous article more than covered the small piece Candy quoted from Mary Ann Collins. I did notice that this "The Incarnation means that Jesus was both fully God and fully man. Mary was only the mother of Jesus as man, and not the mother of Jesus as God." doesn't really explain Candy's adoptive mother comment. If Mary was the mother of Jesus as a man, then she still wouldn't have been an adoptive parent.

We have already covered most of the topics in the large article by Mary Ann Collins. I will try to put up a post later today with links to our posts on those topics, and cover anything we haven't done already.


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Sunday, July 27, 2008

Mary Was Just A Vessel

In Candy's most recent post, on the 6th chapter of John, she included a note about the birth of Jesus.

Of course, in Jesus' case, He is not the son of Joseph. Joseph and Mary were the "adoptive" parents of Jesus while on this earth. Jesus’ Father is God.

She has now removed this, because she said it was being misunderstood. However, previously she wrote something similar:

Mary was just a chosen vessel to carry the flesh of Jesus, until he was born.

I was initially surprised at this, but I since learned that this is a common belief among some Fundamentalists. Catholic Answers writes:

A woman is a man’s mother either if she carried him in her womb or if she was the woman contributing half of his genetic matter or both. Mary was the mother of Jesus in both of these senses; because she not only carried Jesus in her womb but also supplied all of the genetic matter for his human body, since it was through her—not Joseph—that Jesus "was descended from David according to the flesh" (Rom. 1:3).

Since Mary is Jesus’ mother, it must be concluded that she is also the Mother of God: If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and if Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God. There is no way out of this logical syllogism, the valid form of which has been recognized by classical logicians since before the time of Christ.

Although Mary is the Mother of God, she is not his mother in the sense that she is older than God or the source of her Son’s divinity, for she is neither. Rather, we say that she is the Mother of God in the sense that she carried in her womb a divine person—Jesus Christ, God "in the flesh" (2 John 7, cf. John 1:14)—and in the sense that she contributed the genetic matter to the human form God took in Jesus Christ.

To avoid this conclusion, Fundamentalists often assert that Mary did not carry God in her womb, but only carried Christ’s human nature. This assertion reinvents a heresy from the fifth century known as Nestorianism, which runs aground on the fact that a mother does not merely carry the human nature of her child in her womb. Rather, she carries the person of her child. Women do not give birth to human natures; they give birth to persons. Mary thus carried and gave birth to the person of Jesus Christ, and the person she gave birth to was God.

First, if Mary "was just a chosen vessel" does that really mean that there was nothing special about her? The Bible contains another account of a vessel which carried God, the Ark of the Covenant.

The Scripture Catholic website writes the Biblical parallels between the Ark of the Covenant and Mary:

Exodus 25:11-21 - the ark of the Old Covenant was made of the purest gold for God's Word. Mary is the ark of the New Covenant and is the purest vessel for the Word of God made flesh.

2 Sam. 6:7 - the Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Mary the Ark of the New Covenant is even more immaculate and undefiled, spared by God from original sin so that she could bear His eternal Word in her womb.

1 Chron. 13:9-10 - this is another account of Uzzah and the Ark. For God to dwell within Mary the Ark, Mary had to be conceived without sin. For Protestants to argue otherwise would be to say that God would let the finger of Satan touch His Son made flesh. This is incomprehensible.

1 Chron. 15 and 16 - these verses show the awesome reverence the Jews had for the Ark - veneration, vestments, songs, harps, lyres, cymbals, trumpets.

Luke 1:39 / 2 Sam. 6:2 - Luke's conspicuous comparison's between Mary and the Ark described by Samuel underscores the reality of Mary as the undefiled and immaculate Ark of the New Covenant. In these verses, Mary (the Ark) arose and went / David arose and went to the Ark. There is a clear parallel between the Ark of the Old and the Ark of the New Covenant.

Luke 1:41 / 2 Sam. 6:16 - John the Baptist / King David leap for joy before Mary / Ark. So should we leap for joy before Mary the immaculate Ark of the Word made flesh.

Luke 1:43 / 2 Sam. 6:9 - How can the Mother / Ark of the Lord come to me? It is a holy privilege. Our Mother wants to come to us and lead us to Jesus.

Luke 1:56 / 2 Sam. 6:11 and 1 Chron. 13:14 - Mary / the Ark remained in the house for about three months.

Rev 11:19 - at this point in history, the Ark of the Old Covenant was not seen for six centuries (see 2 Macc. 2:7), and now it is finally seen in heaven. The Jewish people would have been absolutely amazed at this. However, John immediately passes over this fact and describes the "woman" clothed with the sun in Rev. 12:1. John is emphasizing that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant and who, like the Old ark, is now worthy of veneration and praise. Also remember that Rev. 11:19 and Rev. 12:1 are tied together because there was no chapter and verse at the time these texts were written.

You can read a more in depth study about Mary as the new Ark of the Covenant here.


Second, if she only carried the flesh of Jesus, then she did not carry his Divinity. The early church found the issue of whether Mary was "Christotokos" the Christ Bearer or "Theotokos" the God Bearer very important. Nestorius said, like Candy, that Mary only bore Jesus' humanity, but that God was not contained in her womb. This Rock has a good concise history of the Nestorian controversy.

If Mary only bore the flesh of Jesus, then where was the Divinity? When did Jesus become both fully human and fully Divine?

Martin Luther had no problem with the title "Mother of God."

She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man's understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.

(Martin Luther, Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther's Works, Pelikan et al, volume 21, 326)
Martin Luther is following in the footsteps of the early Christians by hailing Mary as the Mother of God. Here is a sampling:

"Many, my beloved, are the true testimonies concerning Christ. The Father bears witness from heaven of His Son: the Holy Ghost bears witness, descending bodily in likeness of a dove: the Archangel Gabriel bears witness, bringing good tidings to Mary: the Virgin Mother of God bears witness: the blessed place of the manger bears witness." Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, X:19 (c. A.D. 350).

"If anyone does not believe that Holy Mary is the Mother of God, he is severed from the Godhead." Gregory of Nazianzus, To Cledonius, 101 (A.D. 382).

"And so you say, O heretic, whoever you may be, who deny that God was born of the Virgin, that Mary the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ ought not to be called Theotocos, i.e., Mother of God, but Christotocos, i.e., only the Mother of Christ, not of God. For no one, you say, brings forth what is anterior in time. And of this utterly foolish argument whereby you think that the birth of God can be understood by carnal minds, and fancy that the mystery of His Majesty can be accounted for by human reasoning, we will, if God permits, say something later on. In the meanwhile we will now prove by Divine testimonies that Christ is God, and that Mary is the Mother of God." John Cassian, The Incarnation of Christ, II:2 (A.D. 430).


Also from Candy's previous writings:

Jesus holds believers more important that his mother - thankfully she is a believer also: "And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked [blessed in Mary]. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it." -Luke 11:27-28 Candy

I find this a very interesting quote. Notice that Jesus did not say "blessed are they that hear the word of God, and have faith alone." He said "and keep it," which sounds like works. While Catholics do not believe we are saved by works, the importance of works is reiterated time and time again in Scripture.

A verse which Candy did not quote:

Luke 1:28:
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Highly favoured? Blessed among women? I thought Candy said that believers were more important than Mary?

Luke 1:30: And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

Found favour with God? I thought she was just a chosen vessel, randomly plucked from the mass of humanity.

Luke 1:42: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

There's that blessed among women thing again.

Luke 1:48: For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

All generations will call Mary blessed. But Candy says she is not blessed, not at all. And in that, she is contradicting the Word of God.


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Sunday, June 1, 2008

For Praisethelord

Praisethelord wrote:

Please define the difference between "Tradition" and "tradition" when you get a chance. Where would the Immaculate Conception of Mary, Perpetual Virginity of Mary, Assumption of Mary, and Co-Mediator teachings fall? Thank you!

Welcome to the blog, Praisethelord!

The Catholic Church does differentiate between "Tradition" and "tradition."

Tradition with a capitol 'T' refers to defined doctrines regarding faith and morals, which cannot be changed. It is made up of both Holy Scripture, and oral or written traditions which have been passed down through the centuries. For example, which books are in the Bible canon are Tradition, as they are not listed in the Bible. The vast majority of Tradition is composed of doctrines which almost all of Christianity agrees upon. For example, the Incarnation or the nature of the Trinity.

Usually, the Catholic Church only formally defines doctrines which they begin to be questioned. For example, the earliest doctrines were regarding the nature of the Trinity, because very early in Christianity, people questioned whether Jesus was equal to God, whether He had the same Divine nature.

Hence, the Nicene Creed, which states that Jesus was:

God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.

That is Tradition, which is now formally defined.

Similarly, various Marian doctrines were not formally defined until after the Reformation, because they were accepted until then. Martin Luther believed both in Mary's Perpetual Virginity, and in her Immaculate Conception.

I think most non-Catholics think of Marian doctrines as add-ons from the Middle Ages, but really, most date from the earliest times, 100-300 years A.D. Catholic Answers has quotations from the Early Church Fathers on the titles Ever Virgin, Full of Grace, and Mother of God.

The Immaculate Conception, Perpetual Virginity of Mary, and her Assumption have been formally defined, and thus would fall under Tradition. Mary has not been formally defined as "Co-Mediatrix," but I believe this would probably still fall under Tradition, as it is also a very ancient view, and so the Church would be extremely unlikely to say that she is not "Co-Mediatrix."

There is a movement within the Catholic Church to formally define this title, but personally, I think it better to leave it undefined because it is so often misunderstood. I'm going to cut-and-paste from a previous post, here.

The Catholic Catechism, paragraph #1544 states: Everything that the priesthood of the Old Covenant prefigured finds its fulfillment in Christ Jesus, the "one mediator between God and men." The Christian tradition considers Melchizedek, "priest of God Most High," as a prefiguration of the priesthood of Christ, the unique "high priest after the order of Melchizedek"; "holy, blameless, unstained," "by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified," that is, by the unique sacrifice of the cross.

Considering Mary as mediatrix does not negate Jesus as the One Mediator. This is a difference in understanding what is meant by mediatrix. When Catholics refer to Mary as Mediatrix, we saying that God entered the world through her. Jesus was physically born by a woman, and that woman was Mary. Because she cooperated with God, by saying yes to him, Jesus was able to enter the world.

Does this mean our salvation depends on her? No. But because she cooperated with God, God worked through her (mediated), and so she has been known from the earliest time of Christianity as Theotokos, or God-Bearer.

Catholic apologist Dave Armstrong gives a great answer to this question on his website:

7) So, just as we are allowed the unfathomable privilege of participating in our own redemption, likewise God willed that the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Theotokos, the Immaculate one, the perpetual Virgin, the Second Eve, would play a part in the Redemption of all, by consenting to the Sacrifice on the Cross of her Son, who was God in the flesh. She doesn't (solely and sufficiently) cause the Redemption any more than we (solely and sufficiently) cause our own redemption. Her role is to freely assent and to bear the suffering in her immaculate heart that Jesus bore in His Sacred Heart (hence those two devotions in Catholic theology).

8) "Co" in Latin does not mean "equal"; it merely means "with" or "alongside." We see this even in English. If you have a "co-pay" with regard to health insurance, that doesn't mean that you always pay equally with your insurance provider (I sure hope not!). "Co-Pilot" sometimes means "equal" but usually not. Etc. But because the term Co-Redemptrix is so misunderstood, it has fallen out of use in the last 50 years or so. But nevertheless, Pope John Paul II has used it at least five times, as Dr. Miravelle notes.

9) This was God's marvelous plan - to involve a creature and a woman at every step of the way, so as to achieve a certain "balance" - if I may properly speak in such a way. Eve brought down the human race, acting with Adam; Mary helped to raise it, acting in concert with Jesus Christ, her Son, the second Adam (as Paul describes Him). If Satan could cause the fall of the human race through the frailty of Woman and Man, why is it not plausible that God could in turn bring about the Redemption of the human race in part through the Immaculate Mary, the Second Eve, the Theotokos? To me it all makes eminent sense. It is contrary neither to Scripture nor to common sense and reason.
Tradition with a small 't' are things which are customary in the Church, but can be changed. For example, requiring celibacy for priests is a tradition, while reserving ordination for men is a Tradition. Other traditions include fasting regulations, what sort of sacred vessels can be used for Mass, whether to sprinkle or dunk for Baptism.

For a really good explanation of Tradition, I suggest reading an article by Mark Shea, who is a convert to Catholicism. Here are a few excerpts.

This pattern of seeing Scripture in light of Sacred Tradition is absolutely crucial to understand, because failure to grasp it accounts for an enormous amount of misunderstanding. Evangelicals who have received (usually without realizing it) a pair of contact lenses colored by the Tradition of the Closure of Public Revelation can "see" that Tradition implied in Paul's commands to Timothy. Yet we do not derive the doctrine from Scripture. Rather, we see it reflected there. But since Evangelicals have not received the contact lenses with the Tradition of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, they are unable to see it reflect there. Instead, they imagine that doctrine is arrived at by Catholics sitting down with a Bible and saying, "Let's see. What is the most tortured and extreme reading I can get out of Matthew 1:25 today? Hey! Let's say Mary remained a virgin perpetually!"

In reality, however, Catholics see the Perpetual Virginity of Mary reflected in Scripture in just the same way the Council of Jerusalem saw the Circumcision Exemption reflected in Amos and Evangelicals see the Closure of Public Revelation reflected in Paul's command to Timothy. The Church does not sit down and derive the dogma from the tortured reading of a few isolated texts of Scripture. Rather, it places the Scripture in the context of the Tradition handed down by the apostles and the interpretive office of the bishops they appointed.

In this context, we discover not explicit, but implicit testimony to the doctrine, while those verses which appear to speak of Jesus' siblings or Mary's relations with Joseph after the birth of Christ can easily be understood in a way compatible with her perpetual virginity. We find, for instance, that mention of Jesus "brothers" can mean "cousins" in the first century Jewish milieu. We find that Matthew 1:25 need not necessarily imply anything about Mary's subsequent sexual relations with Joseph any more than "Michal had no children till the day of her death" implies that Michal had children after her death. We also find Mary-a woman betrothed-is astonished at Gabriel's proclamation that "You will bear a son." This is an odd thing for a betrothed woman to be astonished about. After all, a betrothed woman could expect and hope to bear many sons... unless she had already decided to remain a virgin even after marriage. Then she would be astonished at the prophecy.

We find also the New Testament subtly but clearly identifies Mary with the Ark of the Covenant, wherein dwelt the Presence of God. Luke 1:35 speaks of the power of the Most High "overshadowing" Mary just as the Shekinah glory overshadowed the Ark (Numbers 9:15). John does the same thing in Revelation, juxtaposing the Ark (Rev 11:19) with an image of a woman clothed with the sun who gives birth to a "male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter." (Rev. 12:5). The connection between Mary and the Ark, once it is made by with the help of Sacred Tradition, is hard not to see. Knowing the identity of Mary's "male child" it would be an easy mental connection for any pious Jew to immediately think of her as a kind of Second Ark.

Well, one such pious Jew was a certain Joseph of Nazareth who, after his dream (Mt 1:23) did know the identity of Mary's "male child." He also knew, as a Jew steeped in the Old Testament, what happens to people who touch the Ark without authorization (2 Sm 6:6-8). So it becomes very psychologically probable that Joseph, knowing what he knew, also would have chosen celibacy in this rather unusual situation. And so, in short, the Sacred Tradition of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, like Sacred Tradition of the Closure of Public Revelation, turns out to illuminate Scripture in an unexpected and yet satisfying way. Which is why the Church of the sixth century knows and defines (at the Second Council of Constantinople), that Mary is Ever-Virgin even though it is not written explicitly in the New Testament any more than the words "After the apostles die, there will be no new revelation." For the Second Council of Constantinople, knowing what the Council of Jerusalem knew, acts like the Council of Jerusalem did: operating in light of the apostolic Tradition that Mary was Ever-Virgin, the Church reads Scripture accordingly and sees its Tradition reflected there.


You can read my defense of Sacred Tradition here.

I hope this helped answer your questions, and let me know if you have any more.


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Monday, May 12, 2008

Mary as the Ark

On page 60 of Hail, Holy Queen: The Mother of God in the Word of God Professor Hahn brings the analogy of Mary and the Ark to its natural conclusion.

We know that although the ark was beautiful and majestic what made it important and holy was the fact that it contained the covenant - "The Word of God inscribed by the finger of God."

So if the ark was holy and special for carrying the Old Covenant, Mary was even holier, for she contained within her body "The Word of God enfleshed."

If the first ark contained miraculous bread from heaven, Mary's body contained the very Bread of Life that conquers death forever. If the first ark contained the rod of the long-ago ancestral priest, Mary's body contained the divine person of the eternal priest, Jesus Christ.

What John was in the heavenly temple was far greater than the ark of the old covenant- the ark that had radiated the glory cloud before the menorah at the heart of the temple of ancient Israel. John saw the ark of the new covenant, the vessel chosen to bear God's covenant into the world once and for all.


And that vessel was Mary.

I hope that readers who are unfamiliar with why Catholics venerate the Blessed Mother so much are starting to come to some understanding of how First Century Christians and really all of Christianity up until modern times viewed Mary. Understanding Mary in relationship to the Ark of the Covenant is the first part in understanding Mary's role in the life of the church.

Starting tomorrow we will start to look at Mary's rightful place as Queen Mother.


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Wednesday, May 7, 2008

The Lost Ark

Continuing Scott Hahn's Build up of the Lost Arc in Hail, Holy Queen: The Mother of God in the Word of God

If you did your homework yesterday then you know the prophet Jeremiah hid the ark of the covenant to protect it from the Babylonian raiders! He did a pretty good job of it as other than Harrison Ford, no one has seen it since!

On pages 52 and 53 Professor Hahn tells us about the ark in depth. It's pretty fascinating stuff.

Yet the first Jewish readers of the Apocalypse knew the details only from history and tradition. Since Jeremiah's hiding place had never been found, the rebuilt temple had no ark in its holies, no shekinah, no manna in the ark, and no cherubim or mercy seat. Then along came John claiming to have seen the shekinah (the "glory of God," Rev 21:10-11, 23) and most remarkable of all, the ark of the covenant.


John prepares his reader in many ways for the appearance of the ark and Professor Hahn goes through them:
* after the blare of the seventh trumpet of the seventh avenging angel
*echoes of the battle of Jericho in Rev 11:15.
* thunder and lightening, an earthquake and a heavy hail (Rev 11:19)

Imagine that you are a first-century reader, raised as a Jew. You have never seen the ark, but all of your religious and cultural upbringing has taught you to long for its restoration in the temple. John builds the anticipation so that he almost seems to be teasing such readers by describing the sound and the fury accompanying the arc. The dramatic tension becomes nearly unbearable. The reader wants to see the ark as John sees it.

What fallows then is jarring. In our contemporary Bibles, after all that buildup, the passage suddenly comes to a screeching halt as chapter 11 concludes.


and then chapter 12

"Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of His convenant was seen...A great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery (Rev 11: 19-12:2) John has shown us the ark of the covenant - and it is a woman!




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Tuesday, May 6, 2008

Mary in Revelation

The next few posts are going to be pretty "meaty" reading. We are going to be digging deeper into scripture and into imagery and symbolism. Candy said once that Catholics don't read or understand the bible. Sam Gipp, one of Candy's favorite authors said that the bible is a book for the common man - anyone can read and understand it. I think these next few posts, as we read through Scott Hahn's Hail, Holy Queen: The Mother of God in the Word of God will prove that neither of those claims is entirely true.

Granted, this isn't necessarily light reading, but this needs to be posted to give an entire picture of how the Catholic church views Mary.

So starting on page 49, we will be reading about the Apostle John and his book of Revelation. Stick with me this week and hopefully we can make it out of the chapter! Today is just a prelude!



Revelation is the usual English rendering of the Greek Apokalypsis; but the Greek word is richer than that. It is more accurately translated as "unveiling" and was used by Greek-speaking Jews to describe the moment when the bride was unveiled before her husband, just before the couple consummated their marriage.

So once again, as in Cana, we find ourselves with John at a wedding feast. John writes in Revelation: "Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb" (Rev 19:9). Now throughout the Apocalypse, John uses "the Lamb" to denote Jesus. But who is the bride at this wedding?

Most interpreters, both ancient and modern, believe that the holy city is the Church, depicted by John as the New Jersusalem; for St. Paul also speaks of the Church in the bridal relationship with Christ (Eph 5:31-32).

I would like to focus on one of its (book of Revelation's) culminating scenes, its first "unveiling" which takes place midway through the book.

To Jews of the first century, the shocker in the Apocalypse was surely John's disclosure at the end of chapter 11. It is then that even hearing seven trumpet blasts, John sees the heavenly temple opened and within it a miracle- the ark of the covenant.
Homework- read 2 Maccabees 2: 5-8

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Sunday, May 4, 2008

Woman

As we continue this book we will see many symbols and richness in the scriptures that refer to Mary. This next part of Scott Hahn's book Hail, Holy Queen: The Mother of God in the Word of God introduces us to the image of Mary as the New Eve and emphasizes her motherhood. From page 36-38

But let's return for a moment to Jesus' initial response. Did you notice how he addressed her? He called her not "Mother" or even "Mary," but "Woman." Again non-Catholic commentators will sometimes claim that Jesus intended the epithet "Woman" to convey disrespect or reproach. After all, shouldn't He address her as "Mother"?

First we should point out that since Jesus was obedient all His life to the law, it is unlikely that He would ever show dishonor to His mother, thereby violating the fourth commandment.

Second Jesus will again address Mary as "Woman," but in very different circumstances. As He hangs dying on the cross, He will call her "Woman" when He gives her as mother to His beloved disciple, John (Jn 19:26). Surely, in that instance, He could mean to reproach or dishonor.

Yet we miss more than Jesus' sinlessness if we reduce the word "woman" to an insult. For Jesus' use of that word represents yet another echo of Genesis. "Woman" is the name Adam gives to Eve (Gen 2:23) Jesus then is addressing Mary as Eve to the New Adam- which heightens the significance of the wedding feast they are attending.



Still we can anticipate some outraged objection: How can Mary be His bride if she's His mother? To answer that, we must consider Isaiah's prophecy of the coming salvation of Israel: "You shall no more be termed Foraken... but you sahll be called My Delight Is in Her, and your land Married. For as a young man marries a virgin, so shall your sons marry you, and as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, so shall your God rejoice over you" (Is 62:4-5)> There's a lot suggested in those two compact verses: Mary's virginal motherhood, her miraculous conception ,and her mystical marriage to God, who is at once her Father, her Spouse, and her Son. The mystery of divine maternity runs deep, because the mystery of the Trinity runs still deeper.





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Friday, May 2, 2008

Mary and the Early Christians



From Scott Hahn's Hail, Holy Queen: The Mother of God in the Word of God
Page 31

The early Christians had a lively devotion to the Blessed Virgin. We find evidence of this in their surviving literature and artwork and of course in the New Testament, which was their foundational document. While the Mariology of the first three centures was at the primitive stage of development (compared to that of a later age or even our own), it was perhaps more consciously scriptural than many later expressions, and more consistently presented in the theological context of creation, fall, incarnation and redemption. So it sometimes can speak to us with greater clarity, immediacy, and force. For Mary's role makes on sense apart from its context in salvation history; yet it is not incidental to God's plan. God chose to make His redemptive act inconceivable without her.


A number of times Candy has said that Catholics the veneration of Mary is really some type of ancient Goddess worship. But the historical facts point to the fact that the early Christians loved the Blessed Mother, honored her, were devoted to her and recognized the place God gave her in His Plan. Candy apparently is unaware or doesn't care that this evidence exists. Nonetheless, Mary's place in the early church is well documented.


Want to know more? See the Mary Page from the University of Dayton, one of the most renowned international centers of study and research about Mary, the mother of Christ, the International Marian Research Institute serving researchers and students from around the world who come to study and use the collections of The Marian Library, home of the world's largest collection of printed materials on Mary.

Wednesday, April 30, 2008

Reading the bible and imitating Jesus




So when we read the Bible, we need to read it on two levels at once. We read the Bible in a literal sense as we read any other human literature. But we read it also in a spiritual sense, searching out what the Holy Spirit is trying to tell us through the words. See Catechism 115-119.

We do this in imitation of Jesus, because this is the way He read the scriptures. He referred to Jonah (Mt 12:39) Solomon (Mt 12:42), the temple (Jn 2:19) and the brazne serpent (Jn 3:14) as "signs" that prefigured Him. We see in Luke's gospel, as our Lord comforted the disciples on the road to Emmaus that "beginning with Moses and all the prophets, He interpreted to them what referred to Him in all scriptures" (LK 24:27). After that spiritual reading of the Old Testament, we are told the disciples, hearts burned within them.

What ignited the fire in their hearts? Through the scriptures, Jesus had initiated His disciples into a world that reached beyond their senses. A good teacher, God introduced the unfamiliar in terms of the familiar. Indeed, He had created the familiar with this end in mind, fashioning the persons and institutions that would best prepare us for the coming of Christ in the glories of his kingdom.


Hail, Holy Queen: The Mother of God in the Word of God page 22-23.

Professor Hahn is preparing the reader for the imagery and symbols that he is going to use in coming chapters that prefigure Christ, and also His mother Mary. We are going to see why an understanding of the culture and the times of scripture are so imperative to a correct and holistic approach to the scriptures - pretty exciting stuff!


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